From Clean Sheets, an online magazine

In the After Hours -- An Interview with Robert Fleming
by William Dean
(10/09/02)

Robert Fleming is the editor of After Hours: A Collection of Erotic Writing By Black Men, recently released by Putnam. The collection is the first of its kind, featuring established and novice African American writers including National Book Award winner Charles Johnson, John A. Williams, Alexs D. Pate, Colin Channer, Gary Phillips, and Arthur Flowers, among others. A former award-winning newspaper reporter with The New York Daily News, Fleming is the author of several books including The Wisdom of The Elders and The African American Writers Handbook.

CS: Since many black authors have actually pioneered works that depict erotic scenarios, why is it we still seem so ignorant of the backstory and traditions that spawned After Hours?

RF: Well, eroticism has been a part of black literature for a long time. In fact, it is such a large part of the cultural and sexual myths many Americans hold of blacks, the muscle-bound super-stud and the nympho black wench always on simmer. Many of the sexual images absorbed into our society were set into action over 300 years ago and were later immortalized by D.W. Griffith in his film, Birth Of A Nation, which caused a slew of race riots and lynchings. How black writers responded was to become especially conservative in their books, suppressing anything erotic or sexual. All of that changed in the 1940s with Richard Wright's Native Son, the first step of black writers moving forward to impose their own sexual will on the page. Now, publishers are paying close attention to the hunger for a new sexual identity in the black community with an eye on big profits. Sex sells.

CS: James Baldwin, Richard Wright, and Chester Himes portrayed rich and sensual social portraits that also covered sexuality issues. Samuel R. Delaney broke ground with his erotic tales couched in science-fiction settings. Who are some of these new writers you're introducing us to in your anthology?

RF: What a legacy Wright, Baldwin, and Himes left to American literature! Wright's Native Son and The Outsider, Baldwin's Giovanni's Room and Just Above My Head set a new standard for the depiction of black sexuality. Baldwin attacked the topic of Black sex straight-on. He was bold, original and revolutionary. Wright slammed the old sexual taboos that were the core of racism in this country. Himes wrote hot, raw, gritty books such as The Third Generation and The Primitive where he placed lust and carnality center stage. Delany is the sexual pioneer of our time. Read his book, Mad Man. Definitely outrageous! They were men who said that sexual heat can take many forms. They didn't give a damn what anyone thought of their views. In After Hours, I encouraged the writers to be just as bold, thought provoking, without being cliché. I'm proud of the work of the new writers in my collection -- young lions like Earl Sewell, Tracy Grant, Brandon Massey, Brian Egleston, and Eric E. Pete. These cats can write!

CS: What are some of the unique erotic elements that emerge from the Black cultural and literary heritage?

RF: After Hours is a summing-up of the issues, both sexual and cultural, that confront black men today. All of the elements are there -- the spark of sexual attraction, the allure of feminine beauty, the joy of the chase, the magic of the flesh on flesh, the transcendent afterglow of orgasm. A naturalness about sex and passion exists among blacks and that has rarely been seen in black literature. Sex is fundamental. Screw the hang-ups and phobias. Damn the past. Let's get real, the new writers of black erotica are saying.

CS: We're obviously made aware of the "superstars" through the music and film industries, but what about erotic literature? Are black erotic authors getting the promotion they deserve?

RF: Only now are black erotic authors getting the attention they deserve. The readers are there, waiting for new books and new thrills. There has been a slow but steady advance of sexual freedom in black books and the appearance of established black writers in the collection has given the genre a respectability that gives the more conservative readers the license to read them. That trend started with two groundbreaking books, Erotique Noir (1992), Dark Eros (1997), and Go The Way Your Blood Beats (1996). Currently, the erotic collections are coming out with regularity and most of them are well-done, full of good writing and fresh stories.

CS: Some erotica writers still feel the need to hide behind pen-names; some don't even tell their family members that they write "smut." What's the response been to After Hours from your own friends and your general social group?

RF: Yes, some writers use pen-names but I don't mind. There is a tradition of that in American literature. Remember Mark Twain. But seriously, literate smut, as Jamie Joy Gatto calls it, is now legit. My friends don't see After Hours as a smutty book. They recognize it as a historic first. It's the first time black male writers have written so openly about love, lust, sex, desire, and intimacy. Because of the quality of writers in the collection, the book is being judged as a literary effort and not just a vehicle for cheap thrills and titillation. It's not just another stroke book. And that's okay with me.

CS: A certain dichotomy is arising in publishing wherein we see gay and lesbian authors marketed via niche placement vs. incorporating them into the "mainstream." Do you foresee that happening with black erotica writers?

RF: This is a great question and one I've given a lot of thought. I conceived After Hours not only as a book celebrating black male sexuality but as an introduction of that sexual vision for whites as well. This is very different from watching black performers in porno films. This is not just tits, dicks, and asses. You get a story with the sex. Sure, it will be placed in a niche but I'm reaching out to the erotica reading community at large so they can share the pleasures and revelations found in the collection. Maybe that will help me achieve my goal of making After Hours more than a black book with sexy stories.

CS: Fiction writers usually draw from their own experiences and social insights. How much of the erotica you write is "autobiographical" and how much is inspired by your "fantasies"?

RF: I've always enjoyed provocative writing. I still remember how I felt when I first read Tropic of Cancer, Women In Love, Story of O, and Selby's Last Exit To Brooklyn. I'm still a rookie in many respects but I read a lot of the current writers, people like Cecilia Tan, Jamie Joy Gatto, M. Christian, Heather Corinna, Tom Roche, and that crowd. They are doing incredible work. I wrote some erotica, mainly fantasies, for Oui Magazine back in the 1970s. Fantasy, experience, and writing skill gives you the ability to weave a spell for your readers, a waking dream that gets into their heads while firing up their loins. I try to do that every time I pick up a pen.

CS: Do you consider yourself something of a mentor or "champion" to new and aspiring black erotica writers? Will there be sequels to After Hours?

RF: Oh no, I'm not a mentor or a champion for black erotica. My ego's not that huge. I want to challenge myself as a writer and editor, to do things I've never done before. Yes, there's a sequel planned but it's still coming together. It will be quite a project.

CS: In your experience, is there a large readership in the black community for erotica?

RF: Yes, there's a sizable readership for erotica in the black community. It's largely untapped. Sex and sexuality are surfacing in every aspect of black literature, even into mainstream fiction as well, Look at the rising sales figures for the new erotica collections. They're very respectable. It's a whole new frontier.

CS: If you could assemble all your potential readers together at once, what would you like to tell them?

RF: I'd say there's nothing to fear in reading erotica. Be tolerant, be accepting. We all have much to learn. Sex, like life, is very complex. It can tell us a lot about ourselves if we'd only open ourselves to all of its possibilities. Most of us have no understanding of its importance or significance in our daily existence, but just imagine what it would be like to not have sex there at all. Life without sex, what would be the point?

©2002 by William Dean

William Dean is a longtime media professional and producer. He writes erotica under the pen name Count of Shadows, and has published extensively online. His work is included in two erotica anthologies, Tears on Black Roses, and Desires. He also writes the monthly column Into the Erotik for the Erotica Readers Association.